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Is he a Code S Player? If so, high, medium or lower tier? Or is he a Code A Player?
I would call him borderline Code S. Though he didn't make it into Code S his group was really tough.
Is he on par with players of this calibre of the best that Kespa has to offer or is he a tier below?
He is basically on par with the best Kespa players or close enough to not make it matter.
From an objective perspective: Is he overhyped/overrated?
He's obviously tremendously overhyped. With the amount of hype around him, even if he was playing at the level of MVP at his peak, I'd still consider him overhyped.
Is he really just an average Code A calibre player, overhyped by previous accomplishments?
I wouldn't call him average, since he is progressing so fast, and he is decidedly better than Code A.
Is he a projected player to become top-tier amongst the current SC2 crop of players?
Probably
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On January 07 2013 10:26 decado90 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2013 10:18 revel8 wrote:On January 07 2013 10:09 NoGasfOu wrote:On January 07 2013 10:06 revel8 wrote:On January 07 2013 10:04 NoGasfOu wrote: Starcraft 2 is a game in which anyone can beat anyone once you've reached a certain level in terms of skill. There are about 300 of those players at this level. I don't think a player can be ranked anywhere. It all depends on accomplishments, hypes, fan favorites; and accomplishments come from the amount of opportunities you get in tournaments. For example, Stephano. There is no player that gets more opportunities than Stephano. He gets sent around the world to any tournament he wants; and he only has about 53% winrate vs GSL dropout Koreans. Players like Life, Leenock, and DRG have much better winrates, mostly vs Code S, yet each won less money than Stephano. You can say Flash is gosu and a top player all you want (the fact that he's in Code A), but any good Code B can all kill a top team in his good day. Any good Code B can beat Flash on his good day. So, about a few hundred of them rank about the same in terms of skill, unless you're thinking of rank in terms of prize money won, hypes, fan favorite, or famous,.....? Where are you getting those stats from? I collected Stephano's stats from Liquipedia a few months ago when he was at the top of the hypes and made a thread that showed his wins/losses vs Koreans in Premier tournies. OK. They look inaccurate to me. I looked at his stats myself over the summer/autumn and IIRC he had ~66% win rate vs Code S Level Korean Terrans in tournaments. I might compile some sound data for his complete record for 2012 against Koreans and post it here at TL. Nope, MLG posted their stats of players vs Koreans as well. Stephano was sub 50%. He is by far the most overrated player in SC2. By how much praise he gets, you'd think he'd win every foreign gutter tourney he attends. Yet he struggles against foreign zergs and GSL dropouts.
Weren't the MLG stats only specific to the MvP tournament?
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On January 07 2013 09:26 PhoenixVoid wrote: I would say Flash is at least a Ro32 Code S player, with a TvZ/TvP nearing Ro16. Beyond his weak TvT (which is around Code A), he can be a consistent Code S player with maybe a few dips into high Code A, but I don't see Flash making it to Ro8, let alone a finals in GSL yet. But give him time, I expect him to show Ro8 level play by March-April.
Code A level TvT? When Bogus and Baby are easily the best TvTers outthere.
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Somewhere inbetween the best foreigner and ST_Life
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On January 07 2013 10:26 j4vz wrote: Despite what happened yesterday Flash is code S in my opinion... Jaedong threw a winnable diamond level game vs MC.
a lot of unlucky circumstance put him into code A, not to mention yoda, mc, younghwa praticed at the same house so im not saying younghwa dropped the last game on purpose but... it would make sense when your 0-4 to let win your friend...
No, it doesn't make sense to throw games under any situation. How about you ask Byun and Coca how that turned out for them.
If you watched the game, Yonghwa clearly wasn't throwing the game. Not only that, but apparently Yonghwa was also sick. And, I'm assuming English is not your main language because it makes no sense to say "im not saying younghwa dropped the last game on purpose but... it would make sense when your 0-4 to let win your friend..." I'm not saying he threw the last game, but I'm heavily implying that I think he did.
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Is he a Code S Player? If so, high, medium or lower tier? High to Medium Code S layer
From an objective perspective: Is he overhyped/overrated? No, he just showed yesterday with amazing all kill record vs Taeja, JYP, Hero, and Revival. And all those players are Code S quality players. Just result from yesterday shows he can be the best like he was in SC:BW. Not just that when you see all his matches, whenever he loses, its either lack of understanding in SC2 or the opponent did some sort of all in to get a win from him and he wasn’t prepared for it. Which is often the case for Flash because everyone is afraid of Flash when they go hand to hand macro battle. Is he really just an average Code A calibre player, overhyped by previous accomplishments? No, as I mentioned earlier, he is not Code A calibre player, he is definitely Code S. I would like to say he will always stay in top 10 and slowly reach for that number one spot. Is he a projected player to become top-tier amongst the current SC2 crop of players? Definitely, without a doubt. How long will that take, I would say he will achieve that within a year.
On January 07 2013 09:14 LighT. wrote: Weaknesses: - TvT (In the Proleagues he has lost to: Bogus, Fantasy) for a 9-3 record - greediness (usually settles for CC first), exposed to early harass and timings - game sense isnt up to maphack-esque sense he had in SC: BW - strategies; not fully exposed to all the different playstyles due to fully adjusting to SC2 5-6 months ago.
Bogus and Fantasy are very good players, and losing to them is no shame, especially Fantasy. Flash will eventually win vs them, just give him some time to work his problems out. He is greedy but that’s one of the way to get better at sc2 and be as safe as possible in any match up. Game sense… well he just started playing few months ago. Again this will take time, because SCBW and SC2 is two different games. Strategies, like you said, he hasn’t played SC2 for first two years and half of the entire SC2 career. There are things that he has not encountered that people used to use when they were playing since beta of SC2.
As long as, someone like Startale_Life shows up every 6 months or more, I do not think anyone will be able to overcome Flash's dominance. Flash will get there and claim his righteous Code S champion trophy very soon.
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I imagine that he is pretty good.
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On January 07 2013 10:32 Sub40APM wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2013 09:19 BeyondCtrL wrote: I think he is Code S level, his performance in the SPL yesterday just cemented his position as a Code S level player, in my mind at least.
Why? Half the people he beat arent in Code A even. And when he did play fellow Code A players he was at the very least relegated to the wildcard round.
He went 7-2 against code S/code A players. Regardless of how it impacted his position in the GSL, most would say that that's pretty damn good.
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Still improving imo, at a decent rate
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I'd say he's easily a top5 Korean Terran but dunno if that really qualifies you for Code S these days.
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On January 07 2013 11:16 SupLilSon wrote: I'd say he's easily a top5 Korean Terran but dunno if that really qualifies you for Code S these days.
There are 10 other Terrans in Code S, how does that make any sense ;o
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God. And i don't mean that as in Flash, I mean that as in Jesus this thread.
Now I know how DotA people feel about Na'Vi Fanboys.
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On January 07 2013 11:19 Dodgin wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2013 11:16 SupLilSon wrote: I'd say he's easily a top5 Korean Terran but dunno if that really qualifies you for Code S these days. There are 10 other Terrans in Code S, how does that make any sense ;o Not to mention he just lost out to yoda, people have already discussed bogus and fantasy as better. Clearly MVP has to be in the picture. Then there is MKP, Ryung, and I could go on. I would probably place him around top 15 korean terran for what it's worth.
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I know alot of people bring his all kill yesterday. But is the all-kill really that impressive considering its a BO1?
I think we need to give him some times Maybe he is CodeS-caliber, maybe he has the potential. But what matters is that he isn't right now, so he's not Code S, end of story.
Winning a whole tournament (that includes a bunch of best of), imo, is more impressive and should indicate the player's skill with more accuracy
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He is very good, at least Code A level (obviously because he is in Code A right now). His performance in SPL last night proved this. Give him a few more months and he will be dominating Code S.
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Borderline Code S. hasn't proved anything else yet. He certainly displays obvious skill/talent though, he will make a big splash soon enough.
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On January 07 2013 09:27 Thieving Magpie wrote: Reminds me of a consistent bomber; but doesn't get cocky. It took a year of GSL for MVP to finally do well, and last night he lost to (supposedly) IM's best player. With IM holding more GSLs than any other team, that is not something to be taken lightly.
I'd say he is at Ryung/Taeja levels right now. Strong and consistent performances that get better with time, but just always one game short of going all the way. Mvp won his first GSL less than six months after the tournament started, and was considered a top Terran before that...
Anyway, I'd say that right now Flash is showing the best macro we've seen since Mvp in 2011, but his micro isn't top notch and he shows weakness to particularly aggressive/all-in play. It's difficult to say where he'll end up as of now though because we're in for a metagame reset in a few months and nobody really knows how HotS will look at the pro level.
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He is certainly among the top ten KeSPA players and is borderline Code S level no doubt.
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So what if we knew exactly where Flash rests on the progamer ranking? Of course he's over-hyped: back in bw there was a period when the peak elo thread got bumped every time he played a match. People taking one game off of him was a huge event (MVP was one of them).
Right now he's not dominating everyone left and right. For Flash that's all that matters, and he won't rest until he does. As a fan I'll just root for him and see if he can do it.
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On January 07 2013 11:36 forsooth wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2013 09:27 Thieving Magpie wrote: Reminds me of a consistent bomber; but doesn't get cocky. It took a year of GSL for MVP to finally do well, and last night he lost to (supposedly) IM's best player. With IM holding more GSLs than any other team, that is not something to be taken lightly.
I'd say he is at Ryung/Taeja levels right now. Strong and consistent performances that get better with time, but just always one game short of going all the way. Mvp won his first GSL less than six months after the tournament started, and was considered a top Terran before that... Anyway, I'd say that right now Flash is showing the best macro we've seen since Mvp in 2011, but his micro isn't top notch and he shows weakness to particularly aggressive/all-in play. It's difficult to say where he'll end up as of now though because we're in for a metagame reset in a few months and nobody really knows how HotS will look at the pro level.
Terran is literally the exact same thing. You can't do anything different in any matchup but TvT. He'll be fine.
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